Any clue to this problem with the 825i

[Deputy347k9]

OK guys, need you to put on your thinking caps and give me some advise! The problem I am going to discuss as now happened twice, once when the wife was operating the machine and now today with me. Symptoms were identical each time, only a week apart.

Drove 825i from home to field behind barn to pick corn. Machine running awesome. Shut machine off and started to walk away when I could hear what sounded like a fuel pump running. Sound was without question beneath the bed, sound was fairly loud and very consistant. All most like the starter had power to it yet not turning the engine. Had all my eletrical options such a power bed, horn, turn signals and so on. Put vehicle in N and it would not start, nothing what so ever, not even a click. Put the bed in the up position while the noise was still present. Appeared to be behind the engine, possibly in the starter area.

As I continued to search for the location of the sound it stopped. Machine started perfectly and ran great?

This happened to the wife just last week.

I am going to send an email to dealership letting them know. But like any other problem, if it's not acting up then and there it's hard to detect.

Your help and advise is greatly appreciated. Maye a six pack or twelve pack to the person who gets it right!!:hdscrh:

Larry

After about 3 or 4 minutes

[purplewg]

I am going to guess the starter solenoid was running but not engaged in the starter motor for some reason.

[Deputy347k9]

Purplewg, thanks for the super fast reply, you are the man! I just telephoned John Deere as their email system is down. As we discussed the problem we also thought it may be the starter or starter solenoid. It's not engaged as if turning over just a loud constant power surge, like a loud fuel pump in your gas tank when you first turn the key on.

Wondering if anyone else has had the problem.

Again thanks and I am hoping more chime in on this.

[mossyoak]

My Gator does the same thing! It has a buzzing noise coming from under neath the passenger side seat... It will buzz even when the unit is off. However, I have never had difficulty cranking

[Deputy347k9]

Mossyoak, thanks for the reply, I am thinking this is quite different becaust I would not consider this a buzz nor was it from under the passenger side seat. Without quesiton it was from the engine, was loud, all eletrical items were operational and NO START! With the bed up it was behind the engine meaning more towards the rear of the machine. Right in the starter area I believe.

I can't believe I am the only one in the world that has experienced this? I think Purplewg is on the money! Maybe it's Purplewg that is going to win the beer!

[srb08]

I think purplewg is right. The $64 question is what is causing it. It would be interesting to know how much voltage is present at the starter when this occurs. Would also be helpful to know current flow at the battery when it's happening. Sounds almost like the solenoid has a fault. Not enough voltage to engage the starter but enough to spin it. If you have a ground fault present in the solenoid when this happens you will have a high current flow into the solenoid but because of the fault, not enough voltage to engage the higher resistance of the starter. When the fault clears, power is available again to start the engine. I've seen this happen in old electro mechanical communications circuits. The problem was caused by moisture and crud in relays. As current flows through the crud moisture mix, it dries it out and the the problem disappears.
I'll take a look at mine this weekend when I get home and see if I see anything that might be a potential problem spot.
Hopefully, you'll have it sorted out soon.
Best,
Steve

[Deputy347k9]

Steve, thank you very much for your wisdom. As I stated one of the big problems is it's only happened twice and comes out of it after several minutes. Can't take it to the dealer when it's running perfect? I did notify the dealer as I don't want the machine to run out of warranty then something goes to crap.

Local Dealership is going to contact John Deere to see if they have had any reports from other Dealers. I want to document the problem and better yet find it and repair it.

Maybe I am the only one that has ever experienced this? Hard to believe. I am going to keep bringing this post to the top until I figure it out.

[Deputy347k9]

I forgot to also mention: During the several minutes that you could hear the loud noise such as a fuel pump running, the vehicle would not start and I also could detect an odor of eletrical problem? Hope you understand what I am trying to say! I have done several hours of searing different sites hoping to find someone with a common problem.

Please remember: Machine was running great, shut it off and a loud continious nosie such as a solenoid or fuel pump running? Sound continued for several minutes which during this time 825i would not start or turn over, had all eletrical options such as horn, signal power bed. Noise was from rear side of engine towards rear bumper, behind the head where the starter is located?

[srb08]

Deputy, both times this happened, was there any common denominator; moving from cool garage to warm humid outside air, early in the morning when grass is wet? I've spent the last 20 years tracking down intermittent problems and failures in communications circuits. The first step in tracking down the problem is to determine what factors are present every time the failure occurs. I realize that the problem has only occured twice and a good sample of data is not available but you do have a starting point.
The electrical smell is a pretty good indication that excessive current is traveling somewhere it doesn't belong.

[Deputy347k9]

When it happened with the wife operating the machine, she went out back to load up some glads for the farm stand, mid morning, cool no rain. Today when it happened with me it was about 1730 hours, cool no dampness as I just got done mowing. So I don't really believe dampness entered the equation.

Now a quesiton: If I take the machine to John Deere, under warranty, is there any tests that they could perform that might locate the problem if it was in the solenoid, starter or likes?

I just hate hitching the trailer up, driving 35 miles to be told, "sorry we can't duplicate the problem". On the other hand I don't want to be caught with my pants down miles from home either?

[pahawi]

Deputy,

If you have one of those small cameras, that also can shoot minor video sequences (some cell phones can too), bring it with you from now, so you can document what's going on.

Just a thought.

Paul

[Deputy347k9]

Paul that is a great idea!! I do hope I can catch it in the act! That would be solid proof for John Deere. I am going to give the Dealership a couple of days then I will call them again to see what they have learnt.

Thank you for the advise.

[missouri gator]

Deputy, I have been on the phone with my JD service man and read your posts to him. He said it does sound like the solenoid, the electrical smell is probably because it has been running so long and getting hot. There first step would be to install a new starter and solenoid, check the wiring and connections. In over 300 units sold he said this is a new issue to him, he advised you contact your dealer and make sure they have the starter and solenoid before you take it in or have them come pick it up. Hope this is some help.
Mark

[Deputy347k9]

Mark

Thank you for the advise and I will actually visit the dealership tomorrow. I am very much afraid of being stranded. The Forum has been a big help in leading me towards the problem. Everyone agrees it's the solenoid and you are correct, I want one in stock before I take the machine over.

I will keep everyone posted.

Larry

[Deputy347k9]

Last evening as I was putting the machine away, tucking it in for the night, it happened again. Basically the same symptoms, solenoid kept running for nearly 4 minutes then disengaged. During that time I could not start the machine but had all eletrical components. With the bed up a very strong smell of eltrical overheat. Without quesiton was behind engine towards rear of machine. Engine was cool so I kept putting my hand on anything trying to feel the vibration, was from the starter/solenoid.

I just got off the telephone with Steve Hall from Hall's John Deere in Windham, Maine. We talked about the problem and he took down the miles/hours on the mahcine for a claim. Going to order new starter and solenoid, will call me when parts arrive so I can drive over and get her done. Miles is 135, hours 41.1.

I wanted to go metal detecting this weekend but scares the crap out of me as I don't want to get stranded 10 miles in the woods.

If that's my only problem I will be fine. I will keep you boys updated.

Larry

[srb08]

Glad to hear the dealer is going to replace the solenoid and starter instead of trying to trouble shoot the problem. If they do a post mortem on the parts, please let us know what they find.
I agree about getting stranded. It's almost enough to piss a guy off.
Did the dealer give you any idea about how long to get the parts?
Hopefully thinks will sorted out soon and you will be back in the saddle.
Best,
Steve

[Deputy347k9]

From what I understood when talking, he fills out the paperwork for John Deere who authorizes the repairs. How long I am not sure but I will stay on top of it so I don't have so much down time. At this point I won't leave the farm with it. Shit happens so I am not upset just a tad anxious.

I really enjoy all the feedback and words of wisdom from everyone. Steve, I thank you for all the interest. Mark, I want to thank you also for the time you spent in contacting your dealership and telling him of th problem. What would I do with out you guys, THANX

Larry

[Deputy347k9]

This morning I spoke with Steve Hall (one of the business owner's) and he advised me that the new starter/solenoid is on order with John Deere. Once it comes in he will contact me for an appointment. I mentioned that I would like to set a time so that the mahcine can go directly into the shop for starter/solenoid replacment and I can take her home. Steve advised me that the job could take some time? Anyone have an ideal of how much time involved in replacing the starter/solenoid?

Thanks,
Larry

[purplewg]

It should not take more than an hour if they know what they are doing.

[Deputy347k9]

Purplewg, I knew you would chime in with a solid answer, thank you my friend. I will stand by and wait that's for sure. Will let you all know as I would like to have the tech look at the removed items and see if they can tell me what failed. Will be good future infor for other owners.

Larry

[Deputy347k9]

Thursday September 15, 2011. We had rain all day here in good ole Maine. This morning I loaded the 825i and drove her to the local John Deere dealership, located about 15 miles from my farm. Being it was the very first time they have ever replaced a starter on the 825i, it took them about 1.5 hours of time. There are numerous pages of instruction for completing the job. You have to remove the clutch cover so your able to get at the starter bolts. Overall they said it was not to bad. Speaking with one of the owners regarding the suspected bad unit, I was told they really don't have time to tear it apart to find out why it would stick every once in a while. However, they have to hold the starter for something like 20 days just in case John Deere wants it back, unlikely they will ask for it. If they don't ask for it he has my name on it and it going to allow me to have it, no charge. Of course there was no charge for the warranty work. SO FAR SO GOOD.

[srb08]

Glad to hear you got things sorted out. I've been curious as to what they found. Be sure to let us know what you find when you do the post mortem on the starter.