Costly error!

[gasboy]

Yesterday went riding around the pastures fixing fences, on my 825i with 323 miles on it. I needed to cross a creek that i went across several times last week (before 2" rain). Was in water bout 5 seconds, but a little too deep. Came over the floorboard and sucked some up air intake. Locked motor up, brought back home pulled plugs, removed head and valves (bent 2 a little bit), worst was #3 piston rod. Gonna order parts tomorrow. When i get it back together I will be moving the air intake up higher. http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/gastech14/gator-rod.jpghttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo325/gastech14/gator-rod2.jpg

Ordered parts today- Aint cheap! Left invoice in another truck, but will let you all know bout what to expect. The guy at John Deere said a guy came in last week and ordered all pistons, rods and complete rebuild for 855 Dsl. He did same thing i did. (bent all 3 of his rods). Well, glad that is over. I got it all back together. I had some health issues come up during rebuild, so it sit covered up for 3 weeks. I replaced all rods, pistons,rings,bearings, all valves. (one camshaft was replaced, I broke it ) It all cost me bout $750.00 in parts, plus couple hundred for special tools. It sounds and runs like new.

[lexion750]

Ouch! Just rods and valves or is there damage to more of the valvetrain?

[tex_diesel]

Dang that doesn't look fun, good luck with the rebuild!

[WOEII]

:Wlys:

[Regulator]

Yikes....that sucks royally....it's good you know how to do the fix yourself...that would be super costly if you didn't!!!

Good luck on it...

Larry in MD :Jestr:

[gasboy]

I have looked at everything pretty close and it doesnt seem to be any more damage than 1 rod and couple valves slightly bent. I am gonna replace all valves, all pistons, rings , rods and bearings. Should be like new (again).

[duling]

Please post pics of how you move the intake higher, I'm always looking for new ideas/something to tinker with.

[Deputy347k9]

I don't think I would say "ouch", I might just have used other words*%A^(*#!:mad: I am so sorry for you. Please keep us updated as you do the rebuild. We would love to see pictures as you go. Let's pray the finished product is better then new! Also, we need a picture of the relocated airbox!

Larry from ME

[Regulator]

I keep looking at that rod and it looks like it was actually forged that way...good thing it didn't cut loose and make scrap metal out of your cylinder, or the block itself!!!

I'm like Deputy...I'd probably still be cussin'...from the time I saw the positioning of the airbox when I bought my Gator, I was thinking to myself that they could have done a better job of placement than sitting so low like that...but, I figured that I probably wouldn't get myself in a situation where it would be a problem....now after seeing Gasboy's deal and how he wasn't really doing anything "extreme", it's got me thinking of relocation myself...I'm gonna do some looking at mine to see if I can figure something out...I know Deere has an option to relocate the airbox for the "noise" factor, but I don't have a clue if their relocation puts the inlet up higher or not....

Anyone have any idea's on how and where to raise it up...I really didn't want a snorkel sticking up past the roof top!!!...I'm really interested in seeing what Gasboy does here...he seems to have a good handle on Gator mechanics...it might end up being something that Deere should consider doing at the factory!!!...

Like Larry in ME said...post up pics of your rebuild if you have the time please...I love seeing tech posts like that...it's something that could possibly help someone else one day....and, thanx for posting up what you already have done...it's cool seeing what could happen like in your case...a pic of that rod is worth 10,000 words trying to describe it!!!

Larry in MD :Jestr:

[plateauman57]

wow, i guess i'll avoid the water until someone comes up with a good way to raise that air intake. good luck with ur rebuild.

[offroad2000]

I would like to ad to this that even if you raise the height of the air intake, it still means you should not go in water deeper than 6 inches in depth as for the owners manual.

We all know you can go threw water deeper than this, however changing the air inflow to the engine in a longer route will cause one of two things.

less power unless you enlarge the size of the air intake hose from the the air box to where you want to draw the air.

or harder fuel usage.

I know this from changing it from 800hp farm tractors to go karts, and the one other thing is try not to use flex pipe that has a rib like Subpump hose.

use smooth uncollasble type hose its costly but pays off. Rib hose really affects the air flow

this is what i have learned in my experience.:Chers:

[gasboy]

I would like to ad to this that even if you raise the height of the air intake, it still means you should not go in water deeper than 6 inches in depth as for the owners manual.

We all know you can go threw water deeper than this, however changing the air inflow to the engine in a longer route will cause one of two things.

less power unless you enlarge the size of the air intake hose from the the air box to where you want to draw the air.

or harder fuel usage.

I know this from changing it from 800hp farm tractors to go karts, and the one other thing is try not to use flex pipe that has a rib like Subpump hose.

use smooth uncollasble type hose its costly but pays off. Rib hose really affects the air flow

this is what i have learned in my experience.:Chers:I can promise u one thing, If uncollapsable hose is $100.00 per foot, it would be cheaper than what i am experiencing.

[offroad2000]

I agree gasboy, but you can also use hyd return hose from larger equiment. that is what i did, does not bend as well but if you inlarge the draw size you can put it where ever you want it to end. and we are not talking that much larger. what happen to you happen to me and i was not happy about it either.

sorry man for your down luck i know you will get all back going.:Thmup:

[gasboy]

I agree gasboy, but you can also use hyd return hose from larger equiment. that is what i did, does not bend as well but if you inlarge the draw size you can put it where ever you want it to end. and we are not talking that much larger. what happen to you happen to me and i was not happy about it either.

sorry man for your down luck i know you will get all back going.:Thmup:Thanx! I'll get it goin. I dont plan on running in deep water, but didnt plan on it Saturday either.

[offroad2000]

your welcome I know how you feel.:Bnghd:

[WOEII]

I think Kawasaki has the right idea on this one. They use the existing roll bar and up top is the intake.
http://i44.tinypic.com/r6zuc0.jpg
:lurk:

[Regulator]

Kawasaki might have the right idea for an air intake, but that is one of the most butt-ugly UTV's I have ever seen....I would wear a bag over my head if I had to ride in that...just in case one of my friends saw me in it and ridiculed me for the rest of my life!!!

It looks like they started to design it for Military use, and then half way through the design process, they decided to make it into a golf cart for Desert golf courses....just because something is supposed to be "ultilitarian" doesn't mean it has to look like The Amish designed it....ick...

Larry in MD :Jestr:

[CaptDan]

Kawasaki might have the right idea for an air intake, but that is one of the most butt-ugly UTV's I have ever seen....I would wear a bag over my head if I had to ride in that...just in case one of my friends saw me in it and ridiculed me for the rest of my life!!!

It looks like they started to design it for Military use, and then half way through the design process, they decided to make it into a golf cart for Desert golf courses....just because something is supposed to be "ultilitarian" doesn't mean it has to look like The Amish designed it....ick...

Larry in MD :Jestr:

:IAgre::IAgre::IAgre:

Dan in NJ

[WOEII]

but that is one of the most butt-ugly UTV's I have ever seen....I would wear a bag over my head if I had to ride in that...just in case one of my friends saw me in it and ridiculed me for the rest of my life!!!
Larry in MD :Jestr:

:rofl:

[Deputy347k9]

Larry, IF you ever lower your self to ride in one of those please be a "double bagger", you never know if one of those bags might comes off! I have had some ugly things in life, but I was never that drunk!

Larry from ME

[fire gator]

6 inches of water ? the air intake is higher then that if your feet are getting wet then you better be getting out of the water i still qestion the thought and real reason to enter any spot with more water then that is going to cause issues down the road to other components also if want to play in water then maybe an argo is what you need when we forget to use common sense and lead to our childish ways or playing around their is always consequences

[gasboy]

6 inches of water ? the air intake is higher then that if your feet are getting wet then you better be getting out of the water i still qestion the thought and real reason to enter any spot with more water then that is going to cause issues down the road to other components also if want to play in water then maybe an argo is what you need when we forget to use common sense and lead to our childish ways or playing around their is always consequences I have an argo (hate it). Water dont hurt it, unless it gets sucked up the intake. If water hurt it you wouldnt want it to rain on it.

[2255puller]

I am working with a aftermarket snorkel kit off of a Jeep. Looks like it may work good and not add any restriction. IMO, for what we all paid for these gators the engineer's should have put some additional thought into the design of the fresh air intake.

[gasboy]

I am working with a aftermarket snorkel kit off of a Jeep. Looks like it may work good and not add any restriction. IMO, for what we all paid for these gators the engineer's should have put some additional thought into the design of the fresh air intake.Keep us informed on a design. I'm gonna get my brain in engineering mode after i get it all back together.

[Regulator]

I am working with a aftermarket snorkel kit off of a Jeep. Looks like it may work good and not add any restriction. IMO, for what we all paid for these gators the engineer's should have put some additional thought into the design of the fresh air intake.

2255Puller....that's exactly right...these things aren't cheap toys at all, and they are suppoed to bridge the gap between a work vehicle and a recreational vehicle according to Deere's advertisements when they came out...

It makes me wonder if the people at Deere have the sense to follow some of these Forums to get some real world experience on what's happening to these machines???...to me, that would be a smart thing to do...you can do all the testing you want, but they will never replicate the different things that could combine to cause failures...it would be nice to know that they actually do check places like this Forum out...then you would get the confidence that they are trying to make improvements to newer models because of what they learned from people like us...

Maybe that's just a fantasy of mine....oh well...

Larry in MD :Jestr:

[plateauman57]

im not looking to use mine as a submarine either, but i would like to be comfortable that when i cross a creek that turns out to be deeper that it appeared (as happened on occasion with my atvs) I don't end up with the problem gasboy has. just looking for a little insurance for my investment is all.

[CaptDan]

im not looking to use mine as a submarine either, but i would like to be comfortable that when i cross a creek that turns out to be deeper that it appeared (as happened on occasion with my atvs) I don't end up with the problem gasboy has. just looking for a little insurance for my investment is all.

:IAgre::IAgre::IAgre:

[jdman]

this is how i snorkeled mine the air filter stays alot cleaner way up there. very easy to do. http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh599/jdman223/photo.jpg

[jdman]

tryin to learn to put pic on here[IMG]http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh599/jdman223/photo

[jdman]

tryed to put pic on here but no luck. but it worked on help forum in the image testing if u want to look at it there.

[WOEII]

tryed to put pic on here but no luck. but it worked on help forum in the image testing if u want to look at it there.
Fixed.. :hehe:

[jdman]

thanks woeII

[jdman]

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh599/jdman223/photo-1.jpg0

[jdman]

finally got it. this how i fixed the belt intake. just went to deere got another intake hose cut it up and put it together with a piece of 3 inch pvc, hose clamps, H.D. zip ties, rigged a bracket to help hold it hope it helps someone:cool::cool:

[pugwash4]

i did the same thing back when i first bought my 08 850 d and had 8 hours on the meter i bent 2 rod lucky there was no more damage. they realy should move that in take or make a kit for it i just made my own good luck and sorry to hear

[Txcoastjason]

Great looking snorkel! What kind of materials did you use? Was it a kit? I would like to do mine like that. Any advice would be huge!

[jdman]

The air intake for the motor I used some 1.5 inch PVC pipe sed. 40. Some 45,22 degree fittings, 1 3/4 fuel hose,glued them together and fabbed some brackets to mount it to roll cage.

[flyin ryan]

i moved mine up to just under the top of the roll cage. i used washing machine house and some sprinkler system hose connections. ive had water come up over the hood and the only issue i had was getting the belt wet, just had to let it dry off919

[Deputy347k9]

Back to the initial post, how had the rebuild gone? Are you completed and if so how is she running? Any problems during the rebuild? Any pictures of the rebuild going back in?

Larry from ME

[Regulator]

I am curious about the initial posters rebuild too....Bueller???...Bueller???....

Larry in MD :Jestr:

[Txcoastjason]

thanks for the help jdman! Looking forward to starting this project.

[Txcoastjason]

Jdman, did you manage to find black schedule 40 pipe and fittings or did you paint it black? If you found the black pipe and fittings may I ask where?

[jdman]

paint it black

[Txcoastjason]

Thanks again!

[gasboy]

I posted this morn in wrong place, I had a major health setback as i was beginning to start with rebuild. It sat in my garage tore down, with sheets covering the block and all parts for over 2 weeks. I finally got to start on it. I do have a few pics i will try n download later. I first installed all new valves in head and adjusted the valve clearance. (i did clean up the seats a touch). Re-valving the head was a pain in the ass too! After installing new rings on new pistons on new rods and putting pistons in block and tighten all down, I had to pull cams back out of head so i could bolt the head to block, I dont know what happened exactly other than i screwed up, but i snapped the intake cam in half, had to order new intake cam, and i also had to recheck valve clearance. Finally got that on and all was good. There is a place right of starter and below a little that when you drop a nut or a clip or something that it will find its way in that spot and nearly impossible to retrieve. Anyway, it all went pretty well. I would not even think of working on this engine without a service manual. Couple special tools i had to buy, couple i borrowed, couple i had and it all came together. When i finished this past Monday, i turned key on, fuel pump primed, turned key to start and if turned over maybe 4 times and started. Did no adjustments on engine. To me it sounds and runs just as it did when new. Put about 20 miles on it today. That costly error i made that day by goin in water too deep totaled to $1000.00 for parts and few tools. No labor. I would say if i took to dealer it would run 2500-3000, just guessing. I am in no way an expert on these engines or any engines, little experience, and a good service manual. If i can help anyone with a question i dont mind trying.

[jdman]

I am glad u finished it up so u can enjoy the heck out of it again. Just stay clear of deep water and put some snorkels on ur rig!! :Chers::cool:

[osiris]

good job on getting it back together , hopefully all is well now

[Regulator]

Great job Gasboy!!!...I'm not sure that I would be as confident in my abilities to tackle the job you did, so i commend you on doing that...I'm sure that was a sweet sound when that thing fired up like nothing had ever happened to it!!!...

Again...great job on the re-build...that was really cool...:Thmup:

Larry in MD :Jestr:

[Deputy347k9]

Gasboy, more important then the machine, I pray your health is back on track with not lasting problems! I don't think you give your self enough credit, " you may not think your an expert but you accomplished a task that only the experts attempt!

I am with Regulator on this one, I would not be so confident to jump into that job! I would have ended up paying out the bigger bucks.

Again, "CONGRATULATIONS" job well done.

Larry in ME:hray:

[CaptDan]

Gasboy, more important then the machine, I pray your health is back on track with not lasting problems! I don't think you give your self enough credit, " you may not think your an expert but you accomplished a task that only the experts attempt!

I am with Regulator on this one, I would not be so confident to jump into that job! I would have ended up paying out the bigger bucks.

Again, "CONGRATULATIONS" job well done.

Larry in ME:hray:


:IAgre:

Dan

[Regulator]

And I too agree with Capt. Dan, who agree's with The Deputy, who agree'd with me...:Wlys:

Oh shit...now my head hurts....:Bnghd:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Larry in MD :Jestr:

[Charlie]

Kawasaki might have the right idea for an air intake, but that is one of the most butt-ugly UTV's I have ever seen....I would wear a bag over my head if I had to ride in that...just in case one of my friends saw me in it and ridiculed me for the rest of my life!!!

It looks like they started to design it for Military use, and then half way through the design process, they decided to make it into a golf cart for Desert golf courses....just because something is supposed to be "ultilitarian" doesn't mean it has to look like The Amish designed it....ick...

Larry in MD :Jestr:

I agree also lol :IAgre:

[Txcoastjason]

As I work on building a snorkel like jdman, is there any reason why I shouldn't consider getting rid of the air box and just using something like a generic k&n air filter and tucking it up under the roof?

[Kiwi06]

Should be no issue with using a K&N or other after market filter. Using the stock air box just means one less new item to buy. :cool: The right aftermarket solution might even be cleaner looking than the relocated stock box. Good luck with your mods!

- Steve in windy CO