Loud sound and locking when braking

[notamechanic]

As my name says I am not a mechanic, I am a professional gardener. I use my 2003(?) 4X2 gator every day, all day, at work. We have two mechanics on the job that maintain a fleet of 15 or so gators and several riding mowers and lots of small power equip. So they should be able to figure this out but have been trying with no luck so far. Issue:

For quite a while when braking there is a squeaking that transitions to a very loud howl or moan when coming to a stop. The brakes themselves were quite bad and I had to stomp on them long and hard to have a chance of stopping. So the mechanics took apart the transmission and replaced the brakes. Then the gator stopped great, but the sound was no different. Sometimes after coming to a stop, it SEEMS like the brakes remain stuck on. When I start to go there is the sound and it just feels like the parking brake is on. Going forwards and backwards a few time usually frees it up for a while. When this happens, even with the parking brake free and the gator in neutral, it can be locked in.

The mechanics lifted the rear end and played with the wheels etc. and "determined" that some gears in the transmission were locking. So they took it apart again and changed those. Afterwards, still exactly the same problem. At one point they told me that they had even put in a totally different transmission from another gator and the problem persisted. Now I am not a mechanic, but that last one made me think, but they did not agree, that the problem must not be in the transmission. They thought it was just coincidence having the same problem with two different transmissions. Me, I am not that big a believer in coicidence.

Frustrated, I Googled the symptoms and found a few things (here and other places), that made me think it might be bad wheel bearings. The mechanics did not agree but "humored" me and supposedly took them apart and checked and said they were fine, well greased and spinning free. I would not know a wheel bearing, good or bad, if it hit me in the head so I just have to take their word that they are good.

Bottom line is loud noise when stopping, rear end seems locked in place at times, and the mechanics are running out of ideas. Does anyone have a suggestion what could be causing this? I just want my Gator back, the loaner I am using is a slug. Thanks.

[ratrod]

have they checked the clutches at all?

[notamechanic]

Yes, my understanding is they changed the clutches. That was one of the things they originally said they were going to do when they did the brakes. They referred to it as "the clutch" so if there is more than one, I don't know if they changed them all.

[elbowcarey]

Well I'll let you know in like a week, I just ordered a new brake setup so my plan is to take apart the trans axle and change the plates and pads to see if this remidies the problem. I hope is not something with the clutch the brakes just cost me 600 bucks.........Really what my gut is tellign me is that the brakes are bad.................Locking up and making that terrible sound to me is telling me that the steel plates that separate the brake pads in the trans axle must be plate on plate because the pads are so badly worn and there is nothing left to slide on causing the machine to abruptly stop and make that awful sound. I'll post my results as soon as I get it done.... If you find something out first let me know

[notamechanic]

Yes - That was the first thing they did. All new brake parts. As I noted, now the Gator stops on a dime instead of me having to stand on them. But it did nothing to help the problem of loud noise and locking.

[elbowcarey]

1068

[notamechanic]

Thanks - Unfortunately I can't read the image as it is too small. I even downloaded it and tried to manipulate in Photoshop but the detail just isn't there.

[elbowcarey]

Ya I know it won't go on here any bigger.............Anyway it is just a page out of the tm1518 manual for this machine from the troubleshooting section that explains that if you have a loud noise and locking of rear wheels to inspect the brakes

[notamechanic]

OK - Thanks. Our mechanics seem sure it is the transmission itself, not the brakes. I will just have to wait and see if they figure it out.

[elbowcarey]

Well yes there is two clutches a primary ( connnected to the motor) and a secondary which is the one that your brakes are in (transaxle). So far in my repair I have the drivers side rear (secondary clutch) disasembled and the brakes and plates look good to me....... Before I move onto something else to find the issue I'm going to get the other side opened up and inspect the brakes and discs before I rule out the brakes. If your guys figure it out before me please post your results and I will do likewise. Let you know

[notamechanic]

On the gator they are trying to figure out they tell me the brakes are housed within the transmission. Sounds like yours is different?

[elbowcarey]

Its the same, my is an 01

[notamechanic]

Do you know if there is any special additive or anything that is supposed to go in the transmission to keep the brakses fro sticking? I am driving a 2nd gator now with a transmission that the mechanics put in. The brakes are sticking/locking on this one now too. Seems odd that the brakes would stick on two different gators after they put them back together.

[825joe]

Is it the e brake sticking?

[notamechanic]

Yes the ebrake sticks. If I run in reverse a bit or sometimes just forward and reverse a few times, it usually frees up.

[elbowcarey]

I just put mine all back together and will try to give it a test drive later on today hopefully.............It seems to run fine up on stands but we'll see what happens when a load is put on it. As for yours sticking, If you had the brakes and discs replaced they are thicker then the old worn out ones they just pulled out so it is possible that your brakes are adjusted too tight for the new pads, and they need to be slowly broken in. Try having your guys loosen the two nuts on both sides of the control arms at the transaxle connection to allow the brakes to have more room and not so compressed until brakes are apploed. I'll let you know my results as soon as I find out. Good Luck

[elbowcarey]

When you say that your brakes are sticking do you notice that your gator is not going as fast as it should go? I have found on the internet that a lot of people stress using that JD fluid in the case for proper lubrication. I have mine all back together and I only had a few minutes today to mess around but what I found was the noise seemed to be gone but I think the brakes are dragging and causing the machine not to be able to accelerate properly. Up on stands with the wheels in the air in drive the machine seems to run fine, accelerates fine, and brakes fine. But when I put in to the ground so it has a load on it it seems to be slow like I'm dragging a half pressed brake pedal. I need to look more into this but I just wanted to share my results so far. I know that when I put it back together that once I started closing up the case that the axle seemed to tighten up and turning by hand was no longer an option, I just figured that the new discs and pads were thinker then the old so it was going to have to wear in??? Well I let you know as I get this sorted out if anyone has any input that would be great

[elbowcarey]

Ok so in the my last post I told you how it seemed like the brakes were dragging as if the pedal was partially depressed while driving so I decided to take it all apart again and see what the issue is............Everything seems good accept the fact that the new pads are thicker then the old so I cleaned everything again but this time I used the new plates with the old pads to see if this allows more clearance for movement in the case. And it seems to have made a great improvement. I still need to road test it but it seems that this may have done the trick........The old pads were still in good shape just a little less meat on them, I believe the problem was in the old plates as they were groved from riding on the pads and I think this was causing the loud noise. More to come, I will let you know the results as soon as I test drive. Still think its weird that the new pads are too thick, if this solves my problem I am going to contact JD and see why and I want a refund on the pads at least considering you cannot buy them separately, $600!!!!!!! What a rip

[elbowcarey]

Problem Solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After all that BS here's the answer: the brakes being changed fixed the noise brakes work great however, when I was saying that it would not go fast and it felt like the brakes were dragging. That ended up being a governor adjustment that fixed the problem. The stupid thing is super touchy, I must of bumped it with something during the brake repair or something? I ended up going through everything as a last chance before taking it to a Deere dealer and the last thing I checked was the governor and it ended up being the culprit. I still can't believe it but all is good again. Just a tip for others even if your gator is 100% responsive in regards to depressing the gas pedal/moving forward, your governor can still be out of adjustment causing you not to be traveling at full speed thus not letting your clutches fully open/close under load. Believe me I learned this the hard way. Good Luck